View Full Version : sport compact email
twilightprotege
20-02-08, 11:39 AM
has anyone replied to ray's email from monday night asking for input for his series? I had plenty to say that's for sure!
main things i had to say were about prize money (etc). to the regular joe it appears ray is getting heaps of sponsorship, yet the drivers arent getting any love. i know he'll just say it's his business and he'll run it as he sees fit, but on the flip side we're his staff. without us (the drivers) there is no business.
the other main thing i brought up was the street classes (street fwd/rwd/awd). there are bloody race cars in it and are in no way street cars. imo it should be a "car is street registered" class. not only that, there are plenty of blatant rule breaches within said classes as well that are an obvious advantage to the driver of that car. i dont want to say what, but i know plenty of cars which in no way adhere to the rules
anyway, i was just curious to know what other people thought were problems with the series and the running of it...
What type of cars are racing in street class that you think shouldn't be there?
The costs of running these events is far greater that what most realise.
twilightprotege
20-02-08, 01:05 PM
i am aware of the costs involved in putting on an event like this - and we're paid less and less prize money, BUT we constantly get told that the there are more and more sponsors than ever, and yet the prize money is always "To Be Announced", and has been decreasing in amount....even when the events were poorly sponsored we got paid more.
on top of that, simply work out how much money ray is getting from the contingency sponsors per annum! currently $1100pa ... and there are currently 19 contingency sponsors
as for cars that shouldn't be racing in street classes - obvious dedicated race cars that are not street registered, and cars which breach the rules (not going to "out" anyone here, but there certainly are cars which bend or break the rules for alllowable equipment in the street categories running around, breaking and holding records left right and centre) - There are semi-pro classes that people can move up to, and this would only be good for the sport - fast guys moving on to bigger and better things, instead of languishing in the entry level classes just because they are able to dominate everyone there......
twilightprotege
20-02-08, 01:15 PM
dont get me wrong, i think ray is doing a good job, i just think there are a few things that can be done a lot better for the benefit of the sport
i am aware of the costs involved in putting on an event like this - and we're paid less and less prize money, BUT we constantly get told that the there are more and more sponsors than ever, and yet the prize money is always "To Be Announced", and has been decreasing in amount....even when the events were poorly sponsored we got paid more.
on top of that, simply work out how much money ray is getting from the contingency sponsors per annum! currently $1100pa ... and there are currently 19 contingency sponsors
as for cars that shouldn't be racing in street classes - obvious dedicated race cars that are not street registered, and cars which breach the rules (not going to "out" anyone here, but there certainly are cars which bend or break the rules for alllowable equipment in the street categories running around, breaking and holding records left right and centre) - There are semi-pro classes that people can move up to, and this would only be good for the sport - fast guys moving on to bigger and better things, instead of languishing in the entry level classes just because they are able to dominate everyone there......
Thats a valid point,but you seem to forget in these classes its a DYO handicap and there is no advantage for a hipo car against a relativly stock streeter running very consistant times.Thats why I made the move to super mod:D
I reckon Ray should hold an open forum so people can make some valid points and raise the issues that seem to be hindering the growth of the sport.
twilightprotege
20-02-08, 09:16 PM
oh i agree about dyo racing. quite frankly i think dyo racing is awesome. where else can a stocker match up to a beast and still win!
but that's also partically my point. the street classes should, imo, be considered a development ground. for example you, you've stepped up and that's exactly how it should work. like is there any point why i have a car in my garage that i'm building up to be one hell of a fwd beast when i can just toddle around in the 14's and continue to win races and championships? i'm certainly using street fwd as a stepping stone.
and that was another point i raised - we need a development forum like what Jason O'Halloran organised, but not just a 1 night thing where people just air dirty laundry
on another point, i think it would be very interesting to have a *real* street 289 class. why does it have to be just rwd? why not awd and fwd as well? obviously you play around with the weights to make it a fair class, but that would be one hell of a class to be part of
i would love to know whos cars are breaking the rules you are talking about.
i built my car to comply to the rules, hell im even 250 pounds over minimum weight.
if you are aware of cars not adhereing to the rules, you go see harry with your concern and he investigates it. simple.
i have repoorted rule breaches on several cars in S/RWD. in some cases people werent aware of the rules as they just turn up in their stree cars and pull the headlight out and door trims off etc , or rock up with transbrakes.
most of the time its a knowledge level. some people get pissed about it other just say hey, didnt know will do what i have to to stay int he class, take out trans brake switch etc.
ive invested a lot of money in my car to comply with the rules and be at the pointy end of the class. in DYO realistically any rule breaches dotn in effect mean diddly as who ever crosses the line first not faster than their dial in wins.
instead of getting on a forum talkign about rule breaches, go see harry next time. i have had discussions with ray that i dont think it should be up to me to report such infractions, but we need ESP scruitineering so we dont spend half a day in the sheds.
as far as contingency sponsors etc go, i havent been paid since last march my contingency money, which is not rays fault, he hasnt been paid by the sponsors. you may think he is earnign a lot of money but i cantell you summer slam would have cost him a mint, sydney and minijam would break even at best and jamboree would cover the rest so he has food to put on the table for his family.
also i think its rude to expect him to find sponsors for you, you won S/FWD by your signature, get yourself together a sponsorship proposal with colour and hit the streets. you cant expect sponsors to come to you, you have to go to them. this year is televised so theres a draw card, your successful theres a draw card. target businesses who sell products for your type of vehicle. though also keep in mind our sport is still in its infancy and sponsorship is limited.
oh and too address the street car topic, its should be clear as day your idea there is wrong, how many street registered cars rock upto jamboree in S/RWD 85 plus yet every other round we are lucky to get 10 cars. there are 3 of us this year doing the full championship me, kade young, and russel archer. even though they may be more race orientated with fuel cells etc, they are all road registered and driven. what spectator wants to watch 18 sec standard RWD cars go down the track. think about what you are saying dude. street registered means jack all
i do agree with st289 though, awd and fwd should be allowed in
twilightprotege
21-02-08, 10:22 AM
as I said, I'm not going to out people for breaking the rules as I dont think it's my job to do that, especially when some breaches i am aware of are not in my class. I am aware that all I need to do is speak to Harry and I have done that previously in relation to fwd vehicles.
and yes i know it's dyo so going faster is no advantage, but rules are rules. why have them if they arent going to be followed?
i am NOT on here to complain about rule breaches, I'm just saying it something that should be looked at. I'm here to discuss how to make the series better for everyone and i think looking more in to the rules is something to improve the series
if ray isnt getting money from the contingency sponsors, then that's his fault. you not getting paid is pretty low from those sponsors.
in no way shape or form do i expect ray to find me sponsor, nor have i said that i expect him to do that.
in relation to the street registered. your car is street registered so there's no problems. i just dont want to see the likes of (almost) purpose built race cars running around in the street classes. there are many many fast street registered rwd, awd and fwd cars running around on the streets. hell i know plenty of fwd mazda's that only drive on the street that are certainly capable of running deep in to the 13's
again, i'm not here to argue or point fingers. i'm simply wanting to get the discussion going because i dont want to see the series die. there's no other national series i can compete in...
rules are rules. why have them if they arent going to be followed?
i totally agree with that.
the bottom line is for the series to succeed we need more cars on the track. i for one and dumbfounded that we get 2 sport compact cars every wednesday night here at wsid but yet struggle to get 6 entries for compak attak.
i find it amazing that summerslam had such shitehouse support form the victorians. it would appear to me in the sport compact world, majority of people want to be able to say they run 10's without nitrous so they can appear to be a legend whilst sipping a latte in there local coffee shop strip.
turning et setter's into racers is the challenge i feel, cuase more cars on the track = more media = more sponsorship = more events. which all of that is a win win for all involved.
twilightprotege
21-02-08, 12:29 PM
absolutely. you just need to look at forums like boostcruising to see there are many, well apparently, many many very fast street cars out there. hell if even only 10% of them go racing in the street part of the series would be massive! but you're definately right that getting the test and tuners and internet racers on to the strip is difficult. more support or more prize money is the obvious answer, however i think that's a short term solution at best.
also, from what i can gather, victorian sport compact group racing is no more after this year's dismal support from the victorians. if it wasnt for us interstate travellers there would have been no event
twilightprotege
21-02-08, 12:39 PM
how about something like this...
Ray gets some sponsors together, and builds the "Sport Compact Group 289 car". doesn't need to be a record setter, something that can sit solidly in the 9s would be ok.
Every year, he selects a driver based on merit to get the seat in said car. The driver selected competes for the full season in this car, to attempt to get a birth in a another car and to get sponsorship....if he doesn't get a birth in another car, he goes back to where he was, hopefully taking some sponsors with him then a new driver is selected every year to drive this SCG car...
good way to develop driver profiles - drivers who want to stay in would be hunting sponsors to help them build a car to keep them in one of the premier classes
It's very different in Victoria. The fact ANDRA doesnt exist down here has left alot of disgruntled racers. Many have given up the sport (referring more to V8s etc), but when these events come around and the cars need stuff like cages, parachutes etc, no one is going to do that to their car for one event.
I agree, the Vics are dissapointing, but until ANDRA come back, I can't see SC improving here. The rotary scene here is not the same as it was 5 years ago either.
geordo i understand people not having andra licenses and tech inspections, but if i was living in victoria and had to race at heathcote regularly, i would still have the safety equipment now i have raced there. certainly if you valued your life you would. i mean would jake in the burgundy Vl still be here today if he didn't have a cage and safety equipment. a hit like that wihtout a cage and a harness would have had a very bad result for his personal health.
For sure, If I had a car that fast I would have all the safety gear possible in it, but what if you have a VL that runs 10.99 at 123mph. There are heaps of cars like that down here, as you know, you dont need too make massive power in older lighters cars to run times like that, these cars are regularly driven so owners don't want to or can't (illegal) put cages in the car.
:) wind it back .1 sec and be fine
dragwarrior
21-02-08, 07:04 PM
A few of you will know me, for those who dont, it's Aaron, I'm the ANDRA steward from WSID, Crews on the Rocco's Rx-7 & Building the FJ'd 1200 ute! :cool:
I get to see and speak to alot of racers. What I have worked out so far is:
They would like a 2 day event in sydney, with open qualifying passes, that way if they get 10 passes then go out in the 1st round, they see it as value for money.
They prefer to sit in the stands and watch their favourite racers.
I have booted ALOT of s/c capable cars on wed nights, they re-occuring thing I hear is: Dont want to cage it, want the back seat etc. I only drive it twice a year and I get defected every time, but I still want it to be a "street car".
I will say though, alot of people not happy with things. We (the rx-7) got bumped into extreme cause apparently its a 3/4 car, even though it's only back halved! And its too quick for Super Mod!
Tubbed Series 6's in st289.
Prize money being reduced and certain people waiting along time for money to be paid!
63Coupe
21-02-08, 09:09 PM
absolutely. you just need to look at forums like boostcruising to see there are many, well apparently, many many very fast street cars out there. hell if even only 10% of them go racing in the street part of the series would be massive!
Yeah but see the majority of these quick street cars are driven daily, and who wants to go out for some fun and then spit a gearbox or a driveshaft ad then have to hoof it to work??
Bit different if its your toy car which you bring out on weekends, but not everyone has that luxury, shit, id love to compete this season in fact im chompin at the bit, but the sad fact is, its a daily driver, and i need it for that exact purpose.
twilightprotege
21-02-08, 09:58 PM
my car is a daily driver - litterally gets driven every single day. goes to the shops to get the groceries and takes my son to childcare. my astina is my family's only car.
if you know how to drive on the strip you're no more likely to kill your gearbox or driveshaft on the strip then you are at a round of traffic light drags.
and aaron, i think a 2 day event like jamboree could survive in sydney. and you're definately not wrong about the fact that a lot of people arent happy. i'm happy enough, i just think there is lots and lots of room for improvement for everyone's benefit
he ran a 2 day event in sydney and it didnt get supported, hence why its now only a 1 day. i knowthats what people are telling you aaron but when the event comes around they dont show now. if they showed up then it would be a case to argue
fullboost
22-02-08, 08:34 AM
ROUND 1 SHOWCASE ON SBS SPEEDWEEK TV THIS SUNDAY
http://www.fullboost.com.au/forum/img/TV-Graphic-SS.gifRound 1 of the Toyo Tires Sport Compact Group Drag Racing Series from Heathcote Park Raceway hits your TV screens Australia Wide this Weekend!
This Sunday, March 24th at 2pm (check your local guides) will see the SBS Speedweek program showcase a one hour special from Round 1 of the Toyo Tires Series, held at Heathcote Park Raceway in Victoria on Feb 2nd.
Track conditions were far from ideal to say the least but Sam "The Godfather" Sadek (pictured) revelled in the conditions with a fearless display of driving, or as some would say, a display of insanity as he danced his 20B powered RX3 down the track.
Jake Aldous from South Australia is counting his lucky stars, after his Holden VL Commodore dropped a con-rod through the engine sump putting oil under the tyres and putting him into the wall at over 180kph. Jake walked away un-hurt from the accident but the same can't be said for the VL. All this and more wheels up action from Round 1 of the Toyo Tires Sport Compact Group Drag Racing Series, this Sunday, March 24th at 2 pm on SBS.
twilightprotege
22-02-08, 02:41 PM
....this sunday february 24. ray had a blonde moment when writing that up.
so does anyone have any thoughts on how to improve the series?
theres not a whole lot of money up for grabs. Maybe people just dont care about sport compact here? look at the states its dead and buried. the jamboree is a good event and I've been a few times but i can never see a series working. With the value of classic cars going up v8s are more popular than ever.
dragwarrior
22-02-08, 04:31 PM
I do think australia is different to the us, being that s/c can survive. We just have to work out how to convert the wed/fri night et runners into racers.
One thing that gives me the sh*t's is the bloody qld'ers dont travel to sydney. Four or five racers will, but the bulk of the people wont travel and they expect us to turn up at w/bank all the time.
omgsik23q
22-02-08, 06:14 PM
Should be a street class cut-off of 12.99.
Should be a street class cut-off of 12.99.
That would be half the field gone :D ,I thought we wanted to grow the sport:p
Seriously, I think 2 meets a year would be just fine and have them both 2 day events, one in Sydney in May and the other in Brisbane in Aug/Sept.
The problem is we dont have the numbers to run a 4 meet series and if Ray concentrates just on the 2 Meets for the year the racers would be keen to run their cars there.
At the moment if you try to do a series you almost need your car to not break at all for the whole year as 3 of the 4 rounds are run by May.Example, i Ran my car last at Jambo last year.The clutch was fried so in December I removed it from my evo and had it repaired in mid Jan.Its now 1 week from mini Jam and im finaly getting it back in the car(busy with work)
There are a lot of cars off the road ATM and if there was a 4/5 month gap between events people would have the time to get their cars ready.
The Gronk
22-02-08, 09:57 PM
i think we really need to stop alienating ourselves from the v8 guys and need to get involved in some of the big pro street meets that are happening around australia. The only top line car that has anything but a v8 at any of these meets is Joe from Pro Fab in his 200ci ford cortina (yes its a xflow and cant race at sport compact meets because it isnt OHC), but he has one of the fastest and most impressive modified street blown cars in oz and has earnt a lot of respect from the v8 guys. I dont see why the focus is purely on just racing at sport compact meets?
Will help other people (who may have the wrong idea about 'us' and 'our kind') see just what we have to offer the sport, and show everyone (including the next generation of would be racers) how exciting sport compact racing can be at its best!
I would LOVE to see an outlaw class developed. Something where 'hi tech' (i.e. turbo efi) v8's were encouraged to race alongside the 2j's and 20b's. Who wouldnt love to see MR MAD or BWARND go head to head with GAS or PAC?!
I also believe much more planning needs to go into the season in regards to dates and marketing. Everyone is complaining about the heathcote meet, but i think it was a pretty good turnout considering the date wasnt set in stone until 5 weeks before hand, and promotion for the event was limited to a mail out just a week before, local [bendigo] radio/tv and internet forum gospels. Many melbourne workshops whom i had talked to had no idea whatsoever that there was an event coming up in melbourne at all. As said before but, the glory days for victoria are somewhat gone. Who knows, 'hoon' laws may have detered a new generation of racers from building quick street cars for fear of having their cars taken off them, leading them to have no interest in drag racing or building a race car of any kind.
For those that complained about the track, try and think of the budget heathcote has compared to a kwinana or wsid. Whatsmore, heathcote will soon be resurfacing the track first to the 330ft mark with concrette, then to the 660, then 1000, then 1440. I am one who supports them in all they do, as they have OUR interests at heart, and have not turned their backs on us racers like bob jane has recently (calder park and AIR).
I for one hope to see SCG and all racers back at heathcote next year for summer slam. Maybe if jambo is done with in august, and the date is set in stone for victoria by novemeber for early next year it will give all comers a fair chance to budget, plan and turn up to race.
10sec_rx7
23-02-08, 07:20 AM
we are planning to run at compac attack in the extreme class, hopefully we will be well into the 8's by then,
see you out there on wednesday aaron!
omgsik23q
23-02-08, 10:35 AM
I think after this years SCC season, depending on how it goes, I will be looking more at S/ST.
dragwarrior
23-02-08, 06:31 PM
we are planning to run at compac attack in the extreme class, hopefully we will be well into the 8's by then,
see you out there on wednesday aaron!
Excellent, see you on wed.
And unless ray see's some sense and puts us back into Super Mod, Watch out, cause the old man will chase you down! :D
I think that maybe ray needs to look at expanding out and bring some of the Pro Street stuff on board. Becoming more of a NOPI style event.
What not a season like this:
Round 1: WSID, Sat & Sun, In Feb, Opening Round
Round 2: W/Bank, Sat only, May
Round 3: WSID, Sat Only, July
Round 4: Jambo, Sat & Sun, October, Grand Final
63Coupe
24-02-08, 07:08 PM
What not a season like this:
Round 1: WSID, Sat & Sun, In Feb, Opening Round
Round 2: W/Bank, Sat only, May
Round 3: WSID, Sat Only, July
Round 4: Jambo, Sat & Sun, October, Grand Final
Looks good to me. :)
Great idea guy's , now we vic racers are not only getting screwed by the likes of bob jane and calder, now the nsw racers are going to try screwing us out of a vic round of scg. good one ppl. Makes me really proud to say i was born & breed in sydney. Try coming up with postive ideas that beneifts what we alresdy have and everyone involved and not just yourself's..... what both scg and victoria needs is support from the other states so it can grow, not chopping off at the knee's or a kick in the guts while there down. mike. OCD RACING.
omgsik23q
25-02-08, 08:02 AM
Lets be realistic here. 50-60 entries for a meet is pretty poor. 80% of the entries coming from interstate is even worse. No-one is screwing Vic out of a round. The Victorians (who have not bothered entering) are the ones who are to blame. Much respect for the people who run at this series (from both Victoria and interstate), there are many dedicated people out there trying to help it grow. But considering this year and last years turnout for both of the Heathcote rounds, how can one justify holding a round there for 2009?
twilightprotege
25-02-08, 12:43 PM
yep, the blame definately lies with the victorians.
a nopi style event setup would be good
Great idea guy's , now we vic racers are not only getting screwed by the likes of bob jane and calder, now the nsw racers are going to try screwing us out of a vic round of scg. good one ppl. Makes me really proud to say i was born & breed in sydney. Try coming up with postive ideas that beneifts what we alresdy have and everyone involved and not just yourself's..... what both scg and victoria needs is support from the other states so it can grow, not chopping off at the knee's or a kick in the guts while there down. mike. OCD RACING.
OCD, sorry to here you feel that way. if you looked at how many entrants there were and how many of them were form victoria, that tells the story. generally speaking, they arent prepared to support an event that is there for them. if they arent going to support it why the hell should ray and mark lose money to come down there and put the event on. why should the rest of us spend the money to trek down for 3 days, take time off work cut back on wedding plans to be able to attend this meeting if the locals cant be bothered getting off their asses to either a come and watch or b race.
the people from NSW support this series the most, just about all of us do both the QLD rounds and at least 45% did the heathcote round. so i think its a bit poor to single us out when we are supporting the series that supports us.
i will also add i was pretty disappointed with one victorian entrant. he could see i came prepared with spares and tool boxes. he asked me for a hose clamp, i could have said get lost, no i gave him a hose clamp, i didnt even get a thankyou, and to boot he wanted the other 2 spares ones he saw in my tool box. it then gets better later in the day he requests the use of my blower fan and generator so he can cool his car for a grudge match whilst i was still competing the finals, he came what 2 hours un prepared, i drove 15 hours and came prepared.
on a more positive note, i noticed the bikes were heavily dominated by victorian locals which i for one was really happy too see. there was great racing and certainly the guys and girls riding them were making the best out of track conditions we were all played. from what i could see they were all prepared to race, had spares and tool boxes which any racer will have at least a basic set, and when i asked to borrow a can of brake cleaner i was met with a very friendly "sure mate, heres a can, go for your life"
you bike guys and girls showed professionalism and sportsmanship, and even more importantly you showed up to race. full respect to you guys and girls. as for your 4 wheeled friends, they are the ones who have put the nail in the coffin for next year by not showing up. ray and mark know there are enough locals rocking up at those events they dont have to rely on interstaters to make it profitable.
hope to see you crazy 2 wheeled racers next weekend putting on another good show
Shane:)
dragwarrior
25-02-08, 05:31 PM
Mike, I must appologise if it seems like we are trying to kick the vic's while they are down.
I'm one, all for a proposed new track in Vic, with championship drag racing in mind!
The only reason we dont see the point in running anymore vic rounds is because, we have had two Summer Slams so far, and so far, a max of only 10% of the entrants have been from vic or sa.
Why should we support them, when they are given a meeting and they wont support it. It wasnt even ANDRA sanctioned this year, so ALOT of cars and bikes that couldnt have raced last year, could race this year.
On that though, It's one thing to let a 10sec car have a few runs without a cage and suit etc. But for low 9 and 8 sec cars to be allowed to run, without a suit, nappy, harness etc and to put a car like the vl, on that track (being how skatey it was) against a low 12/11 sec car, that just asking for trouble.
63Coupe
25-02-08, 05:47 PM
Yeah it doesn't take a genius to figure out that everyone will get jack of going to heathcote when only a handful of locals show up and have a go, and thats when the interstaters give up on it and it endures a slow and painful death, just take it out the back like the mad cow it is and give it the bullet.
Dont get me wrong, i didnt mind heathcote, yeah the track prep wasnt tip top but the people were friendly enough, the dude in the waterbox with his "chuck a skid" hand signals is a champ, the dim sims were gold and the place was licenced...sound like a winner to me from a spectators point of view. :)
twilightprotege
25-02-08, 08:39 PM
like the vl, on that track (being how skatey it was) against a low 12/11 sec car, that just asking for trouble.
or like when i went up against rocco in my high 14 second car. he backed off doing the right thing when he started to get a bit out of shape, then went to take the first exit. he was in the left lane and thus had to turn right to take the exit. i at that stage had just completed my run as he went to turn in front of me. luckily we both saw each other and i put the stops out (kudos to my overside front brakes) and he didnt keep turning, but it could have been nasty...
Well ppl , i dont disagree with the lack of vic car entrants its abit sad especially when we as the bike racers have worked hard to promote SCG in Vic. OCD Racing as a performance motorcycle shop has supported and sponsored SCG in 07 & 08 as well as personally raced our own bikes (3) and have travelled to WSID and will do so again this year and also to Willowbank (Jamboree) to follow the championship.
It saddens me that a lot of Victorians haven't supported what is a great event and to lose it will be a big loss. I understand ray's position as i've promoted and run the INOX Dragbike extravaganza last sept and i know my buisness could not withstand to many financial losses continually, so this may give some insight to my reaction regarding earlier comments about ceasing the Vic round. regards Mike Darcy. OCDRACING.
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